Your Lifestyle Is Your Medicine
“Your Life Style Is Your Medicine” is a podcast that focuses on how a person's lifestyle can be the key to health and happiness. Routed in the principles of lifestyle medicine, Ed Paget, osteopath, and exercise scientist, interviews area-specific experts on how lifestyle impacts well-being, focusing on purpose, physical activity, nutrition, sleep, and stress, which could lead to a longer, happier life. Edward now runs immersive lifestyle medicine retreats, with the purpose of helping others take back control of their lives to live longer and healthier.
Your Lifestyle Is Your Medicine
Episode 38: Teetotalism with Kevin Smith
Navigating life's challenges often means confronting habits that no longer serve us. My conversation with Kevin Smith, a close friend who courageously transitioned to a sober lifestyle, uncovers the subtleties of such a transformation without the stereotypes often associated with it. We unravel the cultural tapestry that intertwines alcohol with our daily routines and dig into the emotional landscape that can blur the lines between casual and problematic drinking.
Have you ever wondered if the social lubricant at gatherings is truly necessary for enjoyment? Kevin and I dissect the pressures and anxieties that come hand-in-hand with social drinking, sharing strategies that can help maintain sobriety even when the champagne is flowing. Our chat reveals how a simple observation from a loved one can catalyze self-reflection, leading to a healthier and more mindful approach to life's celebratory moments.
In a world where toasting to success, drowning sorrows, and "just one more" are all too common, Kevin's narrative is a beacon of inspiration for anyone reconsidering their relationship with alcohol. From the powerful impact of movements like One Year No Beer to the personal victories at alcohol-centric events, we spotlight the cultural shift towards mindful consumption and its implications on our well-being. Join us as we share these revelations and invite you to explore what alcohol-free living could mean for your journey to wellness.
Watch the video of this episode on YouTube
Welcome to the your Lifestyle is your Medicine podcast, where we do deep dives into topics of mind, body and spirit. Now, through these conversations, you'll hear practical advice and effective strategies to improve your health and ultimately add healthspan to your lifespan. I'm Ed Padgett. I'm an osteopath and exercise physiologist with a special interest in longevity. Now, today, my guest is my good friend, kevin Smith, and he's here to talk about going alcohol free. Now, if anyone is paying attention in the health space, they will notice a sea change when it comes to drinking. Rich Roll recently interviewed Andy Rampage and Rory Fairbanks and the instigators of the movement One Year, no Beer, and there are a whole host of celebrities who are jumping on the sobriety bandwagon Think Bradley Cooper, drew Barrymore, eminem, zac Efron and many, many more. My goal today isn't to have the likes of Miley Cyrus tell us why we shouldn't be drinking, but it's to listen to one man's journey on how he went from a normal social boozer to teetotal and delve into the reasons behind his decision. So, kev, welcome to the show, thanks.
Speaker 2:Ed.
Speaker 1:Great to be here. All right Now. I'm excited because when you told me your story, it reflected the story of many, many other people who have gone to T-Total. But when we listen to these celebrities talk about their journey, it's really hard to relate to, and I wanted you to share your experience so that our listeners and my listeners will be able to relate to what you say and then hopefully pick up little nuggets of how your life has changed and then bring that into their lives. So where do we start?
Speaker 2:well, I think, um, your introduction very kindly described me as a, as I think, a social boozer was that was the phrase you used that that's probably something that we'd all aspire to be. I think, culturally, you know the acceptance that alcohol is just a part of life. That's just, I was going to say, from the age of 18, but I think, if we're honest, it's probably from earlier than that. You know, we see our parents, that legacy, kind of behaviours of our parents enjoying, enjoying drinks at various times and then kind of the, the excitement of your if you bought my 2020 down the park when you're 16 and then your first pint in the pub and and I think for me, I, my, my story, my, my introduction to alcohol is is spectacularly unspectacular. It wasn't.
Speaker 2:You know that something I say to a lot of people is that trying to define your, your habits, is quite difficult, because you're either an alcoholic or you're not, and those two things are pretty linear and I think we all understand, and we probably had experience of knowing people who've who've had real alcohol dependency and who've who've been in a position where, both both mentally and physically, their body relies on alcohol, and I was really fortunate that that wasn't my story.
Speaker 2:I didn't. I didn't have a rock bottom moment, I didn't have a place where I was in danger of losing my family or my house or my job. But I suppose you use the word journey. I think that's a really, a really clever way to talk about it, because it has been, it's been a it's been, it's been physical, clearly, um, but it's also been emotional because, you know, I I wouldn't have said 10 years ago that was any different to the other guy on the street or any other girl on the street who, who's who, who had alcohol in their life, um, and and now I don't- yeah, so let's talk about that.
Speaker 1:So I I did say you know social boozer. I remember when we were talking about this a while ago, you sort of mapped out your drinking week, and some people might be able to relate to this as, yes, that's what they do, or they may think actually you weren't a social boozer, you were a proper boozer.
Speaker 2:So what did your week?
Speaker 2:look like before you went teetotal yeah, it's a good, a good one. I think the timeline was quite interesting because what I realised I was doing was associating alcohol with pretty much every emotion. So I was able to commiserate and congratulate myself. I was able to medicate stress. I was able to. The perception was that I could use alcohol to relax and unwind. But I could also use alcohol to kind of ramp up a social occasion.
Speaker 2:So a few beers after work on a Wednesday night doesn't sound like the behaviours of someone that wouldn't necessarily be wanting to take that from their life. Whether that was after football on a Wednesday night, a couple of beers, always that view of oh, wouldn't it be lovely if this was a Thursday or a Friday and those two or three beers could be four or five. But I always managed that I never did go silly on a Wednesday, thursday night, a couple of cans at home, maybe a glass of red wine with dinner. Friday night was always that congratulatory I've made it to the end of the week. That's in some way kind of an achievement, because kind of that's how weeks work. Friday's always the last day. You're eventually gonna get to friday. But but, like, like many people, congratulated myself, but by excessively drinking on a friday night and as I've, as I've got older, that that went from being meeting my wife in the pub at kind of 5, 30 and pre-kids staying there till close time to to with, in more recent years, ensuring that the fridge was just well stocked really, and and keeping going until that last rum and coke and the whatever it was at 11 o'clock on channel four on a friday night, decided that it was time for bed.
Speaker 2:Um, and I suppose, normalizing that grogginess that you feel on a Saturday morning and just normalising that and thinking, well, I'll probably go easy tonight on a Saturday and never go easy on a Saturday Again, almost that freedom of mind and body that Saturday night. There's no consequence. And again we're talking about, I think, being honest and candid is important. I would be excited about the cold cider in the fridge and thinking, oh yeah, well, I'll have my first one when I start peeling the onions for dinner at about five o'clock on a Saturday night and steadily getting pretty smashed on a Saturday night night. And I think, as I got older and as life kind of kicked in, sunday was the day where I probably I suppose I got to the stage where Sunday was I was able to look back on Sundays and go. This is, this is thoroughly unhealthy, so you know.
Speaker 2:So a couple of social pints with the father-in-law on a Sunday lunchtime and looking forward to coming back and preparing the roast dinner and banishing everybody from the kitchen, putting the football on the ipad, having that first bottle of red wine whilst I peeled spuds and peeled carrots. And then, um, strategically opened the second bottle and offered my wife a glass of red wine. Let's have a glass of red wine. She know full well that I'd always had already had a bottle whilst I was preparing dinner. Um, and and then, and then carried on and a couple of rum and cokes in the evening, and then wondered why Monday mornings were, were vile. Yeah, monday, tuesday, you know, let absolutely don't touch the stuff thinking that I was in some way recovering, um, by having eight liters of water by lunchtime on a Monday, probably my entire caffeine allowance for the week by lunchtime on a Monday, and then rinsing and repeating.
Speaker 2:So you know, I wasn't asleep in gutters, I wasn't hiding bottles of vodka in the toilet system, I wasn't involved in any any kind of um, anything that you would class as kind of socially unacceptable, really, and it was never. I never got to the point of of anybody ever saying to me Kev's drinking a lot or um. You know, maybe not want to look at your, look at your actions or your behaviors, but it got to the stage where, like I say I, I it. It got to the stage where, like I say I, I was very conscious that every outcome had a, had the same result, which was to to have a drink, um, and what I also realized was that I wasn't like, I wasn't like everybody and and my wife made me realize that I wasn't like everybody because one was never enough, two was absolutely never enough and and worstly, three was never enough, because when I got to three, and there is that sweet spot isn't there and it changes with your, with your, with your bmi and your.
Speaker 2:You know how you absorb alcohol, but there's that point around three pints of relatively strong cider where you just feel great, you feel absolutely bulletproof, you think you're hilarious, you know the endorphins are going, your brain is saying, yeah, this is it, you've hit the sweet spot. Whatever you've been doing for the last hour, keep doing it, and that's the biggest mistake, because actually that's the peak. You've already peaked. All you continue to do, then, is poison yourself, poison yourself ultimately, and make yourself feel significantly worse, and I think I was. I was always striving for that three point, three point feeling, and you only get that three point feeling for about 10 minutes at three points, and I realized that, um, it was never going to be enough to just try to try and stop at three or two or one, um, not because, like I say, not because any addiction or physical dependency, but just because that was the way my brain was wired.
Speaker 1:Um, and I suppose it's not just your brain. I think that that the the centers of your brain that uh sort of dampen down impulsive behaviour and so on, they get liberated the more alcohol you drink, and so to stop at three is almost impossible.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, and it was my wife actually that made me realise. So during lockdown, I think probably everybody, or a large majority of people's, alcohol consumption increased because there was very little to do other than drink than drink. And I think my behavior certainly changed, where, because you could only shop once a week, you'd make sure that you stocked up. Um, I remember looking at our fridge one day, one day, and it was pretty much half food and half food, uh, because I was making sure that I didn't have to go to the shop between kind of wednesday and the following monday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and outside and the sun was shining and I had a couple of cans of cider and my wife had a gin and tonic and, uh, I think I just finished the third can and I went back inside I thought, do you want another drink? And she said the strangest thing to me. She said no thanks, I'm not thirsty. And and I and I just stopped in my tracks. I'm like what? What an obvious answer to a question of do you want another drink? But what a ridiculous answer to the question of do you want another drink. And I was like, do you think I'm thirsty? Do you think I'm, do you think I'm four, four cans of cider thirsty?
Speaker 2:yeah, and she looked at me and I was like, wow, this is somebody I've lived with, I've known for 14 years, married for 12, and actually you realize how far apart our alcohol behaviours were. And you'd sit and you would nurse that one gin and tonic and enjoy it, and enjoy it for what it was and enjoy the taste. I was like, oh wow, this is totally different. Two people in the same house, at the same time, in the same country, doing the same thing, but at totally different ends of the spectrum totally, and she.
Speaker 1:So. She's coming to it from a thirst quenching point of view. The amount of liquid she's drinking is, you know, if you put that into water terms, a glass of water, you know, fair enough. You're coming to it from a completely other point of view. You're not going to sit down and go. You know what I need tonight. I need seven pints of water before 11 o'clock. You know, no one thinks that. Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:And what it made me and I think what it made me do was the thing that we don't do, which was be really honest about our thought process. So what I started to do was to think, okay, well, I'm not, I'm not drinking because I'm thirsty. Now I knew that. I think everybody knows that and it's it sounds a little bit, um, patronizing to suggest that people that go and drink too much are just really thirsty, because clearly they're not. But what it made me do was think, well, why am I drinking? What am I? What am I medicating?
Speaker 2:And I think at that time I was medicating. Probably some some boredom, to an extent there wasn't a huge amount to do, probably some some boredom, to an extent there wasn't a huge amount to do. And what I realized was that, like, like a lot of people, that consumption of alcohol kind of uh, numbed my senses, so I could sit in the garden for six hours and not do a huge amount, listen to some music and and drink. Now again, I looked at that and then that's, everybody does it. That's not, that's not a strange behavior. I'm not. I'm not being sick of myself, I'm not falling asleep in the garden, I'm not.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm violent or aggressive or rude to anybody, like I'm doing any harm, but it made me just start to think this is, this is interesting. So I'm medicating boredom and I'm medicating a bit of stress, a bit of anxiety. You know, no one knew what was going to happen in in lockdown. Everyone was amazing I'm furloughed, I'm getting paid to do nothing, okay, well, when does that end? When does when does that stop? And I think it was the first time really in 2020, that I started to to really start to think about and have some honest thoughts about my, about my, my relationship with alcohol. Um, but it took me a little longer to be to get to the stage where I did anything about it okay.
Speaker 1:So if we added up what you were drinking on the wednesday, thursday, friday, saturday, sunday in units terms, that is way more than any government guidelines of units units in a pint, that kind of thing and then the Monday morning you said it was a struggle. Previously you mentioned to me some anxiety that you had around work and things, but you thought it was to do with work and not the boots. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I'd normalised the kind of the 4am waking and then having that rush through the brain of all the things that you were trying to process, and I think that I'd normalised it on the basis that I had a relatively senior position in an industry that is, stress, is relatively common. So I was in the travel industry and the sports travel industry, where things go wrong, right People, when you're moving that number of people around foreign countries to watch sport, they tend to get themselves into trouble or planes get cancelled or hotels double book. And you normalise that feeling of stress or the motion of just being, of trying to think, trying to look around corners, trying to think what might happen and how can I mitigate that. And what I realized, what I've realized since, was that actually my, my drinking behaviors physically was, was waking me up and then the, the anxiety that came with the alcohol kind of the half-life of the alcohol, um, coming through my system was was just absolutely compounding what was already a relatively stressful situation but just making it 10 times worse.
Speaker 2:But I'd never linked those two together. I'd always just assumed that that was, that was part of the course. You know you've got a job. That means that your brain is going to be racing. You're going to wake up at four o'clock, and that's too much detail. You'd get up at four, nip to the loo and then, all of a sudden, you'd lie awake staring at the ceiling and it's, and it's 5am, and it's 6am, and then you're up and yeah, you're again. So, so yeah, mondays were monday, mornings weren't. What certainly weren't my, um, my best self take me to the next piece.
Speaker 1:You're in 2020, then what happens?
Speaker 2:what I was able to do I think which was quite, which quite um was different was to step back and look at myself. Okay, well, what do I want to do? What do I want to be? Well, I want to be sharp. I want to be the best version of myself for my kids. I want, I don't want to be lying on the sofa at 11 o'clock on a Sunday morning watching the highlights of the football beforehand and my son saying, can we go and play football outside? And I'm just saying let's just watch the highlights from last night. He doesn't want to watch the highlights from last night. He wants to go out the front and kick a ball around. And I didn't. And I was like, well, why don't I? Do I not want to do that? Because of what I've done to myself physically the night before, physically the night before.
Speaker 2:So there was that kind of desire to be a better version of myself. How do I do that? Well, I want to be fitter. So I want to be physically fitter. So you've just alluded to the number of units that I was consuming. You put that into calorie terms, it's a couple of extra days food a week. So shouldn't have been surprised that I was struggling to shift any weight, despite the fact that I was training relatively hard to play football uh, training three times a week in a crossfit gym and and got the stage again. Well, hold on a minute. I'm working as hard as I can, but I'm not seeing the the benefit that I should physically, because I'm I'm drinking two days worth of calories a week, yeah. And and I suddenly started to think well, okay, professionally, I want to want to go to the next level. I want to, I want to stay in that, those senior positions as a dad and as a husband. I want to be a best, the best version of myself, physically and from a health perspective. I want to want to be healthier, I want to feel healthier.
Speaker 2:Um, and I didn't know what I didn't know, and I normalized how I felt I was, I was tired, I was, I was groggy, I was, I was moody, I was a, I was a grumpy, overweight, stressed, not great version of myself. And I think the hardest thing I did was kind of look at myself and go. I don't particularly like this guy. I, this guy's, this guy's doing all the things that he thinks he should do, but actually isn't somebody that my son or my daughter would look up to or my wife would look at and go. This is a shining example of a human being, and that was quite hard because you kind of that self-reflection to go hmm, this is a bit tragic really. This is, and it almost in that sense would have been. Would have been easier to have a real rock bottom for someone to go. Right, that's it.
Speaker 2:God forbid, our marriage is over or you've lost your job because of poor performance and that real kind of kick up the backside that some people do get. I didn't get, and it was death by a thousand cuts. It kind of came to me over a period of about a year. Really, I noticed that I'd started to do some things that suggested that I was, that I was serious about change. So the dry January kind of concept, right you?
Speaker 2:sort of dipped your toe in yeah, it's funny because I now look back at it and I dip my toe in for the exact wrong reason. Right, I dip my toe in to prove to myself that I was OK.
Speaker 1:Many people do that. Right, that's their thing, isn't it? They go. Well, if I cannot drink from January 1st to January 31st, I obviously don't have a problem and I'll just get on with it. And there's some people here in my community who, you know, everyone experiments with a bit of not everyone, but a lot of people experiment with dry January. And then there was this concept of stealing a day from February. Have you heard this? And I was shocked. I did dry January this year. In fact, I haven't drunk all this year, and this is partly to do with you, actually. And I was, you know, talking to my friends telling me your story and a few of them were like, yeah, yeah, but you know it's so-and-so's birthday, but what we could do is we can take a day from jet, and they end up taking days from february and march and so on, and looking ahead on a monday and say monday, march 15th or whatever it was, we won't be drinking.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, come on, guys, this is not right but you're absolutely right, because there's there's such a binary separation between you're either dependent or you're not. Then if you can as long as you can prove that you're not, then you're okay. You downplay some of the benefits, inevitably. You, you do feel better. Um, ironically, I felt a lot worse for the first couple of weeks. You are in a little bit of, you know, body shock.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know, I don't know the physiological um, I'm sure there is a physiological name for what what happens when you, when you do these things. But then, as you start, as your body does start to recover towards the end of january and you do start to sleep better. So easy to say, well, yeah, but that's because I've I've not had any takeaways either in january and I've actually probably been to the gym a little bit more in january and I've actually probably drunk more water than I would have done and I've actually walked the dog a little bit longer. So I've had more exercise and it's really easy to justify and actually I feel healthier. So now when I go back and drink, maybe I'll drink, uh, jim, and slimline tonic rather than cider, and yeah, that lasts for all of like one day and you and then you'll and your habits return. Um, and I did that, and I did that, and and I I didn't allow myself to believe that I felt so much better. You know, those Mondays were very different Monday mornings.
Speaker 1:So did you notice the anxiety got less. Obviously there was no sort of hangover and withdrawal stuff, but the anxiety cleared up with the Not immediately, I think.
Speaker 2:I got into a place where it had almost become habitual. Yeah, so four Sundays of not drinking wasn't going to be enough. And again I started to understand that actually dry January was Clearly it's better than drinking throughout january. But actually what it was doing was kind of it wasn't quite long enough to prove my point. It was enough to prove a point to myself that I wasn't alcohol dependent and it I was just starting to see some, some positive signs, but they weren't positive enough to stop me drinking on the 1st of February.
Speaker 2:So where I got to? So I, so my kind of journey was dry January 2021 break yeah, I'm fine, I'm not an alcoholic great. And then a very wet February, march and you can, you can, you can go through the whole year and find so many reasons to to drink. So I kind of I get to october 2021. Um, and I think it was macmillan cancer initiated this october. So, oh, great, that's now two months of the year where I can prove to myself I'm not an alcoholic great, uh, so I went through october similar, similar pattern to january.
Speaker 2:Uh, started to feel a little better. A little bit better. Didn't really want to admit myself to January started to feel a little bit better. Didn't really want to admit myself to myself that I was feeling a little bit better. Did a couple of different things in October, so I did start to count calories saved and kind of go right, every pint of cider that I don't drink is 200 calories that I've not ingested, because then I was starting to think about what I was eating and how long I was sleeping at night, and so the physical side of alcohol was starting to be an impact. I also worked out the financial elements of not drinking.
Speaker 1:Yes, I was going to bring that up and I'm glad you did.
Speaker 2:On the Tesco app so this week's shopping is 40 quid less than last week's shopping and we bought the same amount of food. So, okay, there we go. That's the difference. Times that by four, all of a sudden, that's not an insignificant amount of money. Without really knowing it. I was trying to find all of these matrices that I could measure the benefits of sobriety against, because I was desperate just not to go. That's it, I'm giving up drinking. And I was almost trying to scientifically prove that or to justify to myself that well, financially and physically and mentally, and and and. So by the end of October I'd kind of got to the stage of going what and for the, for the first, I'm very different to the first of November, was very different to the first of Feb, where I kind of like, well, am I, am I going to start again?
Speaker 2:Went off to Cardiff I think it was Wales, fiji, or like what it was Wales, fiji on the 14th of November 2021. And I remember being in Wales, being with some clients of the business, being in a hotel and we'd hosted a lunch for about 70 really really, really good clients and some people had gone off to the rugby and I'd stayed at the hotel and because we'd done a bit of a presentation and a speech. I'd not drunk during the day, and then it was kind of once they got off to the game we had some food and we sat and we had a chat and a couple of pints and then the client started coming back to the hotel. They're like oh, we've had such a great day. Thanks ever so much. Let me buy you a drink.
Speaker 1:So these are clients you're entertaining in that standard sort of corporate client pint absolutely drink.
Speaker 2:here's some food yeah, yeah go both ways okay, so it's there's an expectation for you to drink with them absolutely and I and I I genuinely felt obliged that someone's come back and said such a great day thanks ever so much, let me buy you a pint.
Speaker 2:No, I thought, is that is it rude for me to refuse that? And so and again, weakness on my part went along with it, and and that night got out of hand because this was 5 o'clock, the game was at 2.30. They're coming back to the hotel at 5 o'clock. Woke up on the Monday morning, 15th of November, in Cardiff, feeling pretty grotty, genuine, genuine anxiety, because I couldn't remember probably the last two hours of the night Right, being with valued clients, people. I couldn't remember probably the last two hours of the night, right, you've been with valued clients, people I didn't know particularly well, um, not knowing how the night ended, having that horrible kind of flashback exactly yeah happened, yeah, yeah, yeah probably Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably the most anxious I've ever felt about just the not knowing and not being surrounded by people waiting to come to breakfast and say what the hell happened last night. You know what happened and wasn't going to be able to have that conversation with anybody. Yeah, and then it's a bit I'm not sure I told you this before. It was the perfect storm. So I then walked from Cardiff City Centre to the station I was getting a train to Gloucester. It poured with rain the whole way. So I'm hungover, I'm anxious, I'm feeling pretty grotty, I'm soaking wet. I get to Cardiff station to get the train back to Gloucester. All trains are cancelled. I'm rail replacement bus service, so the 45 minute train is now a two hour bus, calling at every single stop between Cardiff and Gloucester.
Speaker 2:Right, and looking back, it's exactly what I needed. I was like what am I doing? What am I? I'm? What was I like?
Speaker 2:42 years old, I'm sat on a bus with my, with my rucksack on my lap, just just wanting to be at home in. I wasn't in a. I wasn't in a in a in a a dangerous environment. I was just just feeling really sorry for myself, and it was having having come off the back of kind of that October period where I felt good, um, I remember coming getting off the bus and then having to get another bus to my house. It was just, it was just like you can just imagine. I was just, I was just not in a great place. I was just feeling sorry for myself and I was and I look up to the stage going but that's it, that's it, I'm done, I'm done, that's it.
Speaker 2:And I remember getting in the house and said, well, I'm not drinking, that's it, I'm done. And and then, kind of as the as the, the anger of my day wore off. I was like, well, yeah, but it's the 15th of november, I'm supposed to be in cardiff again next week, so how am I going to have those conversations with the same people about not wanting to drink? And then it's December, right, what a terrible time to pick my wife's birthday. It's my birthday, it's Christmas, it's new year. So I'd kind of, I'd kind of created this environment where I was going to write I'm going to have a week off, I'm going to not drink until at least next Saturday, and just make myself feel a little bit better. And then, through a turn of events not linked to drinking. Anyway, I ended up not going to Cardiff and being quite relieved that I wasn't going to Cardiff. Okay, well, that's removed that yeah.
Speaker 2:So I can go to the end of November. So that's, I've had two weeks. So in my head I was like, well, actually I've had the whole of october, I've then had two weeks and I've had another two weeks. So out of the eight weeks, I'm six. Six out of eight, okay, um, but I'm not gonna be able to get through. You know, the concept of even thinking about trying to get through christmas and birthdays and all those things just just wasn't even on my mind. Um, we were hosting a party for my wife's birthday on the 17th of December. So I was like, okay, what I'll do is I'll go up to the 17th of December, um, and then I'll not be able to not drink, hosting a party at our house, so I'll, I'll then drink. Um, and that was kind of my intention up until the day.
Speaker 2:And I went out and bought the crisps and the nibbles and I was like, right, I need to go and buy the booze. So here we go. And I remember being stood in the aisle and I bought a case of cider and a few bottles of Factor Zero, zero, and I put them in the fridge. I was like I wasn't really sure why I bought the Zero Zero. But there must have been a reason. I was like maybe I am considering not drinking tonight, I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2:And I wasn't brave enough to have that kind of internal conversation with myself and we were getting ready to play and music was on and the first person knocked on the door at seven o'clock and I remember, literally like a sliding doors moment, being stood in front of the fridge, going what side of the fridge do I go to? And I fridge, going what side of the fridge do I go to? Wow, and I I took the zero, zero and I poured it into a pipe glass and, not ashamed to say, I hid the bottle. I hid the bottle in the bottom of the bin because the people that were coming were our, our good friends, but I didn't want to have that conversation with them. That was, I'm not, I'm not going to drink tonight, because in some way that would would have detracted from the party we were hosting you sort of think it does, don't?
Speaker 1:you think it's going to take away from the party, but yeah, well, you, your experience is probably it doesn't, doesn't.
Speaker 2:Well, interestingly, I I I had a pint glass all night in my hand with varying levels of what looked like cider and so that. So in their head, nothing changed, right, nothing. That was normal Kev. Um, we had a karaoke machine. I was cooking pork belly. We had a fire outside um, it was. It was a great party. My wife had a lovely birthday.
Speaker 2:Um, by about midnight I realized that I'd had the same conversation with one guy three times and I was now. I was now telling him his story back to me. Um, and I, like, people started to drift away and went home and I tied it up, put, cleared the house at kind of midnight, came down, turned down the next morning I was like I had a really good night and I was genuinely surprised. I had a great time. I didn't, no one knew. So I felt a little bit. I didn't feel guilty, but I felt a bit like a bit deceitful that everybody else was hanging in there.
Speaker 2:The WhatsApp groups are going. How are you all feeling today? How's the head? How are you feeling, gab? I was like do I put on there? I'm fine. I'm fine because I've deceived you all and that was a massive moment for me, because I was more concerned about what I perceived to be the social pressures than actually. I was pretty concerned about two things. One would I have a good time? Would I feel boring? Would I feel like this guy? And I think we've all got that vision of the the person stood with the lime and soda in the corner, not talking to anybody, and what's up with him? Oh, he doesn't drink. All right that they came from over there, and so I? I didn't feel like that. I didn't feel as if anybody that had come to our house that night had had a worse experience because I wasn't drinking. Just by a turn of fate, my wife's birthday's on the friday, mine's on the monday. So I was like, okay, well, what are we doing for my birthday? Luckily we weren't hosting another party.
Speaker 1:That'd have been a bit much, but yeah, normally would have been let's go for some lunch, let's go out, let's go, let's go out.
Speaker 2:So okay, we went. I think we went down to um, to mitch hampton, common, the old lodge again somewhere where if I went there, I'd always be looking at what, what side has they got on tab? Yeah, how's they got? And I remember walking in and looking and they had um lucky saint to a zero, zero beer. And and my, my first reaction which is why I knew that I needed to make this change was absolute relief. I was like I'm not going to put myself under any pressure to drink today because there's a viable solution right in front of me and it's okay.
Speaker 1:Just the two of you. Yeah, this pressure and internal dialogue is happening on your birthday for a lunch with your wife. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Who is, for the record, 100% supportive of me not drinking and he's very honest and says you're a better person when you're not drinking yeah so it wasn't as if I was trying to prove to any anything, and so so, yeah, so then I'm, then I'm, then I'm two birthday celebrations in one weekend and, having navigated them both not not particularly spectacularly haven't done anything majorly different. I was then going to my brother's in London for Christmas and again the WhatsApp group's going and who's bringing the trifle? We've got the cheese, who's bringing this? And my mum goes on and says I've got a couple of bottles of champagne I'll bring. And I thought, great, great opportunity, guys, I'm not going to drink on Christmas Day. I'm not going to drink on Christmas Day. I'm going to drive up in the morning and I'm not going to drink.
Speaker 2:And within like two minutes my brother had put on and said, yeah, no problem, mate, I've got you some zero, zeros. There's some no seco. And I was like, hang on a minute, no one cares what I'm doing. They can do what they want and I can do what I want. What I'm doing, yeah, you can do what they want and I can do what I want, and it so again, christmas day um was great. Boxing day morning I'm up, we're out walking, feeling good, and I'm feeling smug. By now, by now, I'm genuinely smug.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm starting to physically feel better you're doing your crossfit all the time in the background.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, yeah. So I'm still trying to train, I'm still trying to look after myself and just be a healthier version of me. And then the exact juxtaposition was that I wasn't thinking at all about what I was drinking. And as I started to do that, you realize that actually all the good you can do by having a good diet can be undone in four hours on a Friday night.
Speaker 1:Literally undone, and not just the Friday night, the following Saturday with the poor food choices that come up and even the Sunday.
Speaker 2:It's 96 hours of hormone and blood sugar dysregulation yeah yeah, yeah, a big busy night, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, a big busy night, yeah. And the justification, the, the internal dialogue, justification of that you everybody knows what you shouldn't do, the the times where you would, I would look at, I would look at the app that where you book on to go into the gym on a saturday morning, on friday afternoon, go. What I'm going to do here is I'm going to book on, I'm then going to go home, I'm going to drink too much, I'm then going to cancel it. And instead of going to drink too much, I'm then going to cancel it and instead of going to the gym, I'm going to go to McDonald's and get McDonald's breakfast, like the ridiculous.
Speaker 1:The opposite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it couldn't. So you're exactly right. Not only am I not doing the right thing on the Friday night, I'm then ruining, I'm stealing joy from the following day as well. Right, that's just. That's just that. But when you say these things out loud, it's ridiculous, but it probably resonates with with 90 of the population, they're going well. Can I do that? The strange thing is that the number of people who who have reacted strangely and literally on the fingers of of one hand, right have taken it personally like.
Speaker 2:So I I'm not gonna name names for for fear of retribution, but I went to a party and got there and what are you drinking? Someone's trying to put a glass of champagne in my hand? No, no, I'm fine, thank you, all right, what do you want? A beer? No, no, I'm fine, actually, thanks. Spotted their Nespresso coffee machine in the corner. Oh, I couldn't have a black coffee, could, why not? Yeah, how long have you got? No, I'm not. I kind of. I kind of I got this phrase and it was, it was, it was okay and I don't use it anymore. But it was like alcohol is no longer kind of aligned with with my life choices and it felt a bit kind of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a bit pretentious.
Speaker 2:It pretentious I was, was like I just don't want to and I just want really hard not to be cross like it's none of your business it's almost like it's easier and I've heard people say this to have a medical reason not to drink absolutely, I did that if you could just have a note from your doctor saying well, actually I've got colitis or no? My kidneys are antibiotics, my antibiotics.
Speaker 2:I can't drink, or yeah no, no one asks you to say a follow-up question when you say you're an antibiotic um, but you know, you're absolutely right, you're at it, but I, I think, I think the fear of of um upsetting somebody, or or or feeling in some way disrespectful to that person is always greater than the actual practical outcome. Like I say, probably three or four people, and the reason that I'm OK with that is because I was that guy. I was that guy at uni. What do you mean? You're not drinking, don't be ridiculous. Of course you are. Come on, on, come on, I'll get some of mine. And there were some really strong people at our uni that didn't drink um, and I remember thinking what, what, what are you doing? You're missing out?
Speaker 1:and and they were the smart ones um, they were well actually talking about it, so we were at university together.
Speaker 1:That's how we know each other, and uh our university had a little bit of a reputation I mean, all universities do, but we like to think our reputation our reputation for boozing was was more than others. Potentially it was a sport thing, a sport science thing. And you told me the story about a reunion that you went to. I think it was last year and this reunion it's happened on and off over the years since we graduated 20, 20 plus years ago. It's in london and all the guys get together and there's usually a lot of drinking and going to that and I've been to that reunion. It's a expectation to get drunk because that's what we used to do in our 20s and that's what we're going to do in our 40s, to try and sort of hold on to some sort of semblance of our youth potentially. So tell me about what happened when you went to that, with knowing that you're going into an environment that historically is a very booze heavy environment it hadn't happened for a couple of years covid and life, etc.
Speaker 2:And a couple of people had returned from overseas. Um, and it was becoming, it was going to be a. It was going to be a big day. Um, I'd, I'd managed expectation with a couple of the guys that I knew well and they knew that I wasn't drinking, and by then I'd got to the stage of using the phrase that I was never going to use, which is I don't drink.
Speaker 1:So I'd always go.
Speaker 2:I'm not drinking at the moment. And going from I'm not drinking at the moment to I don't drink, it felt like quite a big step because it's much more final right, I don't drink present tense I'm not drinking at the moment. But I might do if the right environment was to be created which kind of opens you up a little bit for someone to go. Well, maybe today's the day, then why wouldn't you drink today? You're with your mates, it's the day then. Yeah, why would you drink today? You're with your mates, it's it's the saturday before christmas. You're in london. Remember that time when you got on the train, you know that sort of thing. So I was like, okay, I'm now using the phrase I don't drink. So two or three guys knew about it. But then, there were.
Speaker 2:There were 10, 12 guys from our year at uni who who were mates, but but aren't people that I would have seen for maybe 10 years for various various reasons, you know, like kids, covids, etc. And we're in the pub in covent garden, the same one that we're always in the porterhouse um, people are coming and going, as they generally do throughout the day, and someone came up to me who I haven't seen for a couple years and I was an inch left at the bottom of my pipe glass, sm Smithy, what are you having? I said I'm drinking the on the second from the end on the tap, so-and-so, so-and-so, zero, zero. And he stopped and he turned around, he went all right what's it like?
Speaker 2:I said you know what, it's really good. He said, oh, went away, got me one. Came back, we had another chat. I finished, bought him one. So I'm in this little circle, um, we're chatting away. What you're drinking? I'm drinking the zero zero. On the end, oh, you're not drinking. No, told them the story. All right, what's it like? It's quite good, long story short by the end of that. That kind of cycle of events. It was my round. All right, guys, I, you bought me one, you bought me one, you bought me one like I. That kind of cycle of events. It was my round. I'm like, guys, I, you bought me one, you bought me one, you bought me one. Like I was trying to kind of go around trying to mop up who I'd point to. So what are you having? I'm on that, I'm on the zero zero. But yeah, I'm on the zero zero anyway. Of the seven drinks I bought, five of them were zero zeros and because you converted them or they were I think.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I think people have kind of gone this is what's the difference, like, and I, so I didn't get the chance to kind of complete the circle with regards to yeah, that's something that you always do. Is that something that that we're all moving towards? Because we're kind of going, well, what's the point?
Speaker 1:what's the?
Speaker 2:point, and so it was. It felt, it felt good that you're not that kind of social pariah, you're not the one, you're not the lime and lemonade in the corner by yourself. Yeah, the chat was was as silly and as good and as funny as ever. There was always going to be those, those stories of remember this and remember that, and lots of those are underpinned by our behavior when we were drunk. That was okay to have those, because because it was great we wouldn't have had those memories had we not done what we did when we were 18 19, yeah, I think the difference this year was that we weren't trying to replicate that and we weren't.
Speaker 2:We weren't desperately hanging on to those behaviors. We're kind of going. They were, they were cool, they were great, there were good times. But it was 1998 and the world's different. Yeah, we're different. Our bodies are different, our minds are different. Um, and it was, yeah, it was. Uh, I don't think I needed the um, the reassurance, because these are good guys, you know them, but they're good guys.
Speaker 2:They wouldn't be the people that would say I'm not speaking to him because he doesn't drink but for so many people in that environment, that was historically a a boozer's day to have made those decisions either pre-event or during the event. That's gone. Yeah, I'll have one of those. Yeah, um, it was great, it was. Yeah, it like that. That kind of reconfirms why these are my people.
Speaker 1:Because we're kind of all on that same path.
Speaker 1:And maybe that was you, maybe they've got there anyway, maybe it's the time in our lives, but I would agree. I've had a couple of people here. When I said I wasn't drinking in January, they were like, well, call me in february. I was like, okay, I don't think I will. And then there are, there are others who have gone, oh, that's cool. And then come february they're like you're still not drinking. I'm like, no, they're like, yeah, I think I'm going to do that.
Speaker 1:And I've had three or four in my social circle here that have either stopped or severely cut down their booze intake. I've mentioned this one year no beer, and the founder of that is Rory Fairbairns. He says this phrase which I thought was really interesting. He's on the Rich Roll podcast. Rich Roll is an ultra athlete, a health advocate, and he's a recovering alcoholic. And he says to this guy, rory, he says so, you're T-Total right, you run One Year no Beer, you're leading this world movement. And he goes God, no, and it was in the podcast. It was like, oh, this is interesting.
Speaker 1:The guy drinks and he says this. He says, look, if I ask people to quit booze completely, I get a 0% compliance If I say to them look, have something at Christmas. Or if someone buys you a really expensive bottle of whiskey from Japan and they fly it back and they coddle it and cut the wall and they ask you to have a dram with them, why not? And then everyone's like, oh yeah, I could do that, but I can't go teetotal. And he uses it as a springboard to going teetotal. But I think that's brilliant.
Speaker 1:When I say I haven't drunk since January, I actually tell a lie. My current girlfriend, she went to Canada and bought back this maple syrup liqueur and she was so pleased with it she bought it back and she gave it to me and I was like, oh, I'm not drinking. And then I looked at it and I remember what this guy always says I'm going to try this. So I bought a tiny bit in a glass, drank it. In fact the alcohol taste to me was quite overwhelming and I actually gave it a little bit to my daughter and she said why don't you just drink, uh, drink some sort of hot chocolate and not put the alcohol in it? It's like, yeah, you've nailed it, really it doesn't mean that's it yeah absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think that the analogy that springboard is it's a springboard is absolutely, yeah. And I, looking back, I, I did that springboard without knowing that I was doing the springboard, because I think, once you get comfortable enough to go, no, no, I don't drink, I'm okay, um, I'm not broken, I'm not, there's nothing wrong with me, well, there's's nothing wrong with me, there's nothing new wrong with me. And once you get to that state, I think that the other thing, the final thing for me was that not drink, not physically drinking, the easy bit. So you know, you can just not buy the booze, you can just not go to the pub, you can just not put yourself in a situation. So that's relatively straightforward, right. That's discipline. That's just having discipline not to put yourself in those positions where you might make a poor decision or being strong enough to. Though, if you are in those positions, you'll, you'll be resolute.
Speaker 2:The thing that I've had to work hard at that is, um, all the things I used to medicate with alcohol I now have to deal with. Yes, so, um, I sleep really well, right, but I, I still have those, I still have the. I still have stressful situations in my life, but I have to deal with them rather than numbing them with alcohol. Genuinely is a is a newly learned skill as an adult, because ever since I can remember I'm thinking about this. But it's okay, because by five o'clock I'll have a cup of glasses of wine and I'll forget about it, and then that can be, that can be tomorrow's problem. That can be tomorrow's problem. I'm not at my best and I'm feeling like crap and I'm groggy, yeah, and I've still got to deal with the problem's the same, if anything. The problem's slightly worse and I'm I'm ill prepared to deal with it, or let's deal with it now, when I'm as fresh as I'm going to be right head on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can kick it down the road until it builds up, and then you just have to make you deal with it in a poor way, in a bad way, or you can get it earlier.
Speaker 2:What I've got, what I've got really good at as I've got older is knowing what I'm not good at.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Allowing things to carry on and get worse is something that I know is only going to make things worse, whereas I think old me would have gone ostrich head in the sand, face in a can, kind of. We'll deal with that at another time and actually, knowing that you're not very good at that and fixing it is, it's difficult, it's hard, right.
Speaker 1:If it was as if it was easy, everyone would be doing it so, talking of everyone doing it, what advice would you give to someone who's sober curious? Who's thinking about this?
Speaker 2:I think the first thing I'd say is is have the bravery to, to, to, to self-reflect. So if you're, if you're thinking about it, if you think you might have a challenging relationship with alcohol, then you probably have because you're already thinking about it, and that's the first bit. Right To go. Whether it's a sober curious, whether you classify as a gray area drinker, whether you let yourself down at a family party or a wedding, or there's videos of you circulating that you'd rather there weren't, or there's an embarrassing karaoke moment or a wardrobe malfunction that you can look back on and go, yeah, that was that seventh Jager bomb that did that. Whatever that kind of trigger piece is, then if you think that there's a problem and problem is probably a too strong a word then there probably is, and I think my advice would be have the bravery to, to look at what's causing that um. Is that a? Is that a desire to medicate a stressful situation? Is it a um? And I and I fully appreciate, I'm very fortunate that I haven't got huge life trauma that I'm trying to to cover up, and I and I know that there are people that have that have been in some awful situations and that it can be deemed that alcohol can help those things. Because you haven't got to think about it. And I understand why, why you would do that, I think, just having the bravery to look and look at the reasons why. Because, like I say, the act, the act of not drinking unless you are dependent physically. It's relatively straightforward, you know, but there's never been more options. You know, I'm sure that tesco's out a new shelf every every time I go to the the alcohol free section of our tesco's. There's a section's bigger, there's a another brand, there's a, there's another option. And another piece of advice would be that it's it's so easy, isn't it, to be led by other people. It's been. It's so easy for other people's to be led by other people. It's been. It's so easy for other people's opinions or insecurities to rub off.
Speaker 2:Um, if, if you can be stubborn and disciplined and selfish, then those those things that aren't necessarily qualities that you would shout from the rooftop. Someone said describe yourself in three words and you said I'm stubborn. Stubborn, selfish and disciplined. You're probably thinking that who's this guy? But actually, actually, if you apply those three things to your relationship with alcohol, the minute you start to verbalise some of those things out loud and start to, in that safe space, whether it's a partner or a friend, someone you can tell this is bonkers.
Speaker 2:Right, right, what are we doing? We're spending all this money doing this thing that makes us feel good for about 12 minutes and then awful for about two weeks cost loads of money, makes us physically awful, it gives us anxiety and stress and depression, affects our sleep, it makes us tired, it makes us lethargic. You kind of go. That's not a great idea, is it? But then everyone does it. Then you go oh yeah, it's Friday, go and do that. There is certainly a school of thought or a change in behaviours, isn't there that we, as 40-something nearer to 50s probably aren't we that age men can have this conversation? Yeah, this would have been a ridiculous concept 20 years ago yeah, we would have had to have had that doctor's note yeah, absolutely, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:And if that doctor's note said um, you know, uh, this this person is is struggling with their weight, can't sleep, has anxiety, has depression, has bouts of panic attacks, physically, is carrying more weight than they should, has high blood pressure.
Speaker 1:If the doctors don't say that you'd be going wow, this person's in real trouble.
Speaker 2:And the only thing you have to do to not do that is don't drink. Of course you're not going to drink. Why would you even drink if you've got this? How many people have got those symptoms to an extent? Because lots of them are unquantifiable, aren't they? Yeah, how bad is your? You could say someone's a stone overweight or too stone overweight, or BMI, and you can measure health and you can measure heart, blood pressure, all those things, but you start to add them all together and they're all consequences of one single action. Doctors should be writing notes.
Speaker 1:right, they should be, you should be writing notes going you're not allowed to drink. Kev, thanks so much for coming on the show and imparting your wisdom that you've learned allowed to drink. Kev, thanks so much for coming on the show and imparting your wisdom that you've learned for this journey and I'm hoping this will inspire some people to dip their toe in and maybe take that step towards being alcohol-free.
Speaker 2:Thanks, ed, it's been great.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining me in my conversation with Kevin. If you'd like to support the show, the best thing you can do is subscribe on Spotify, apple Podcasts and on YouTube and leave a review or comment. Also, sharing the show with friends on social media is much appreciated. Remember, if you want my direct help, go to my website, edpadgettcom, subscribe to my newsletter and drop me a message via the Contact Us link, and hopefully I can help you make your lifestyle your medicine.